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New guy in town, looking for some insight and education
First time posting, looking for some wisdom. Not a dedicated German helmet collector mainly due to the costs, but my interest goes back to the late 1960s where as a kid I was shown bring back helmets by two different uncles of my parents. When I got old enough to ask about them again, I found out that one had been given to a neighborhood kid. The other, an M42 is still with the family. I've been trying to get photos of it for a while without luck.
Anyway, while out running errands with the Mrs. two days ago looking for antique quilts, I noticed a small display of WW2 bits for sale in the little antique store in the middle of nowhere in South Dakota. The older man who owned the shop had no backstory other than it was with a batch of US WW2 gear he purchased at an estate sale. He was not a militaria specialist by any means. Figuring the price would be far beyond my limits, I asked if I could look at it. I was allowed to have it in hand. I was reminded of those two bring back helmets I'd seen as a kid, and figuring in my fantasy that this was the one my great uncle had given away way back in the day.
What struck me about it was the rough textured paint. When I looked closer I could see two shades of green and also brown. The interior looked to be the original paint without any camo paint on it. It's an M40 Q62 on the left inside and DN156 in the back inside. While I hadn't planned on buying anything, the Mrs told me I should do it. Always good to have that kind of support 🙂
I did post it in a Facebrook group and any responses have all said it's a fake. When they said the liner was fake I took it out. Then the response changed to the frame is real, but the leather is fake. Having read all the info I could find, mainly on this site but elsewhere, I can say there is no paint smell at all. The Patina question seems to be answered as the colors are not vibrant but seem to have faded over time.
He was not asking what I assumed would be asked, and when I offered a bit less, he took it. I'm of the belief if he knew what he had, he'd have been asking a heckuva lot more than he was, and he'd not have taken a lower offer. If it is fake, so be it. The helmet itself is still the real deal, and it has filled that 50 year old hole I've had since handling those to bring backs 🙂
Thanks in advance for the education.
Dan
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Some images of the liner
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A decent looking helmet but from these photos I have to say that I believe the paint inside and out is post war. The liner band and rivets look to be war time but the leather is not German so it has been added. If you did not pay a lot for it you did okay as it is an original shell and looks good on a shelf. My opinion, see what others say.
Cheers,
Terry
I do not like the exterior paint either based on these photos.
One important point. Do not remove the liner unless you are 100% sure the helmet is in fact messed with. If this indeed was an untouched helmet, the removal of the liner pins/liner would significantly devalue the helmet.
The lot# DN156 is interesting. While Franks database has two of these, I do not think I've ever observed the "Box" impression around the numbers before. Further, I always suspected the prefix letters to be on the same "punch" as the numbers. Here it looks like they were punched separately. Maybe just an optical illusion....?
Also, has anyone see such a wide Q62 stamping before? Again, maybe just my eyes...
Thanks for the replies and the thoughts. I do understand that the German Helmet world is full of fakes, and fake Camo's in particular. I'm wondering why it would end up in a little antique store in South Dakota, with the owner of the store, who is asking far less than what the usual costs are for German helmets.
Is the fake world so intense that they'd stamp certain stamps in the metal for a reason? Why choose the ones I see on the helmet? Quist 62s and DN156 something 'special"?
Again, I'm just trying to learn about this stuff, so don't take my questions wrong.
As for the liner, someone else told me the same thing, of course after I'd already taken it out 🙂 Oh well, my bad. I'm not worried about value, only history. real or imagined, when I'm done with it, I'll pass it on so that the history is preserved. Not criticizing those who do sell them, mind you, just my choice as the history matters. That profit has ruined so many of these hobbies drives me nuts. So giving stuff away when it makes sense is my way of fighting back 🙂
And as for the liner, what stands out that would say it's fake? Using the stuff on Frank's site, this helmet had passed the tests he lists, outside of I can tell if there was a decal underneath. As it has a 1943 liner date, if what I read I understood, Quist did M40s for longer than most, so a 43 version might not have a decal. Does the lot number go against the 1943 date?
Someone elsewhere suggested it was done by a re-enactor. It's a small helmet. I put it on my youngest son who is 12. He does not have a big head and this thing fit him snug. I'd assume for reenacting it would have been a larger size.
Again, based on Frank's site, the paint lacks any paint smell, and the colors lack the vibrancy that reflects on the patina question. What is suggesting it's a fake paint job?
In the end, I'm happy with it, and certainly don't feel like I got taken. Based on the prices I saw when I looked around the web for prices on camo helmets, this was nowhere close to that price range. I'm happy with what it represents as these things are pieces of history one way or another. And sharing that history with my kids and now grand-kids is what matters, so they can learn 🙂
But please if there is anymore info, or things I can learn on this, I hope folks will continue to educate me.
Dan
Hi MAP, I did some digging all over the web looking for images of Q62 stamps and DN stamps.
Borrowed from another forum. The Q stamp looks the same to me with a little more distance between the Q and the numbers
The two DN stamps I found both show what looks to be separate stamps for the DN and the numbers. The size of the DN looks a tad smaller too. So maybe the shell is the real deal? 🙂
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Hi Dan
welcome to GHV.
As already commented by Terry, the camo looks not period from here as well as the liner.
Camos are a minefield as you can imagine. you may take some better photos under the daylight however because these are less than ideal .
Felt band hasn't the correct color you see on german helmets and that's the first red flag.
Shell is 100% correct Quist with condensed font (the used different ones through their production).
I have seen this very helmet you posted on a FB page and the first guy which commented (Normal Norman) was correct. Many knowledgeable don't bother to comment furthermore because Fb is just a mess...
Quote from Guppy35 on March 7, 2021, 8:18 amHi MAP, I did some digging all over the web looking for images of Q62 stamps and DN stamps.
Borrowed from another forum. The Q stamp looks the same to me with a little more distance between the Q and the numbers
The two DN stamps I found both show what looks to be separate stamps for the DN and the numbers. The size of the DN looks a tad smaller too. So maybe the shell is the real deal?
The shell is real but it is post war abused / restored / messed with whatever you want to call it. No longer a representative piece of WW2.
Hello Dan
Should have said "welcome" first off, apologies for the lack of politeness.
To clarify further about the liner and why it is not original WWII German. As Andrea said, the felt inner band is wrong. Also, look at the holes for the drawstring, with little circles around each one. That is the telltale sign of leather from another country's helmet liners.
Regarding the paint, it all looks way too new, inside and out. No age or patina.
Cheers,
Terry
Thanks to all of you for the continuing education. No harm no foul as I didn’t spend a bunch of money on it.
it was fun to think I might have gotten lucky finding it in that little antique store.
I guess I better stick to RAF Type C Flying helmets, which is my main focus. I have a much better idea what I’m doing with those.
No doubt I’m going to hang around here and keep learning from the crew here
thanks again
Dan